Just saw Lecavalier's kicking goal disallowed; reminds me of other controversial playoff goals. Remember the one, I think during a Flyers game, where the puck basically dropped from the crossbar to the goalline, but appeared to enter the plane of the net during its drop, even though it didn't enter the net when it hit the ice? I forget the game, result, ruling, etc.; I just remember the play. Anyway, on a decision like on the Lecavalier play, it's good to get the ruling for future reference. Go Bruins.

I am having a hard time with a competant Bruins team as I suffered in my youth with a Bobby Orr fan for an older brother. That being said, they are going to do the Habs (aka the "why did I pick them as the dark horse" Habs) in four so that is a service to the world. I was hoping they would knock off a few before taking a Leafs beating...but that I why I suck at pools and started one with no financial disavantages.

Heh.... the Bruins didn't look all that competent last night.... still, I think they'll pull it out in 6 games.

Good shift in the pool this morning with the goalie stats governing waiting for the shutouts to average out and the scorers to catch up. A further skewing occurs when the round picks are added after round one with up to 40 points at play.

On Marcia's good advice, I have shifted all pool discussion over here by partially hiding this other earlier thread" which is still live but will not show up on the on-going active conversations list.

OK -- are there any Senators fans out there? The next one who says "the Leafs only beat us because of their goalie" needs a smack. Ottawa can't get past (reliably) any Leafs' goalie in the playoffs. Ever. Not Cujo, not Belfour -- maybe its just playoff goalies in general that the Sens have trouble with?

Personally I think its the combination of the playoff fear coupled with facing a team that can and does spank you like a small child on a regular basis that gets the Senator's knees knocking and induces the old SPCS -- Senators Playoff Choke Syndrome.

Of course that's just my opinion, and I'm probably right.

D'OH!!! - the Habs just learned how to suck again. Boston ties it with 22 seconds to go because they forgot to put Perrault out for the face-off when he leads the league for five years on that particular skill. I am just loving the 3 goals against the Bruins.

3 goals against spread out over 4.5 periods isn't so bad... still a .933 save pct.

Might I point out that the B's just took a decisive 3-1 series lead in a play that must have Montreal fans everywhere changing their colors to black and gold!

Go Boston!

My desire for pool points is nothing compared to my dislike of the Habs (as long as they are good enough to have a healthly anti-Habs feeling) so I am not shattered by events.

Can't we all just get along?

Being a hockey fan is a means of structured antagonism so that we can otherwise get along. Habs suck.

Votre Bruins précieux ne sont pas terrible. Pour la première fois dans années. Mais le Bruins sont comme les sénateurs. Perdants.

Va Habitants, Va!

See - wasn't that nice?

Look at the faceoff stats for the game and compare Green to Perreault. There's a reason Perreault wasn't ou there. Green had his number and they were trying someone else. Green was 80% on the night. Koivu was was 60% on 28 draws. Perrault was just 42% on 7 ayyempts. There are many, many reasons the Habs lost that game- faceoffs were the least of their problems.

Bruins suck, too.

Everyone sucks except the team I'm currently rooting for.

That's the spirit.

Go Flames! I won the lottery at work and am going to the Leafs game Friday night with Adam. So go Leafs! Hope we win tickets to a possible Bruins-Leafs game (though we may get beaten up!).

I am liking the Flames, though I did not pick them. I would be quite happy for them to lose to the Red Wings (the team the Lord made) before they beat the Leafs in the Stanley Cup finals. While I am a Leafs fan, I am a congenital Wings fans - which is a difficult position to maintain but I am doing ok with it, thanks for asking.

A different sort of hockey pool...
<blockquote>
<pre>13/04/2004 8:21:55 PM mr mills:</pre>
that's different that what we ran at [my work]. We ranked the teams 1-16 and then we got points based on wins x ranking for all of the teams.
<pre>13/04/2004 8:22:59 PM mr mills:</pre>
the guy that won last year just took the standings at the end of the season and used that for his ranking
<pre>13/04/2004 8:23:25 PM mr mills</pre>
he lost out big time on having Detroit 15th, but he made it up everywhere else
<pre>13/04/2004 8:23:28 PM ThunderBay ThunderBayians</pre>
statistically valid
<pre>13/04/2004 8:23:40 PM mr mills</pre>
yeah, but kind of boring
</blockquote>

Also Go Bruins! (don't want needless matrimonial difficulties). Flames (or Wings) vs. Bruins (or Leafs) in Stanley Cup would be IDEAL...sort of rooting for Leafs (as I have a shot at one Stanley Cup final ticket and have never been to a playoff game before!).

Actually Adam said that he and I could go to the game with your tickets.

So much for avoiding "needless matrimonial difficulties". :-)

Oh my gosh, I'm sorry. I should make it clear, Adam referred to them as 'his' tickets.
j/k
How about them Sens?

Check out the new expanded standings with detailed stats!

http://www.fugue.net/nhl/standings.php

WOW! Great job Adam - everybody check it out. Much easier see how I am moving on up ...just need Khabi to let in some goals!

Exactly - it sure helps define who you want to suck in a particular way. I am also rooting more for the Habs than since New Year's Eve 1975...and even then I was partial to the Moscow Dynamo contingent.

al, must plead ignorance...was only 5 then, what happened on New Year's Eve in 1975?

The Habs played Soviet Red Army and it was live on CBC. Ken Dryden and co. staying off the commie hordes.

How are your team picks? I am sitting very nicely with mine:<blockquote class="smalltext">MONTREAL_CANADIENS<br>
DETROIT_RED_WINGS<br>
TAMPA_BAY_LIGHTENING<br>
PHILADELPHIA_FLYERS<br>
COLORADO_AVALANCHE<br>
SAN_JOSE_SHARKS<br>
TORONTO_MAPLE_LEAFS<br>
VANCOUVER_CANUCKS<br></blockquote>

MONTREAL_CANADIENS (PLEASE...)
DETROIT_RED_WINGS
NJ_DEVILS (ACK)
TAMPA_BAY_LIGHTENING
COLORADO_AVALANCHE
ST_LOUIS_BLUES (ACK)
TORONTO_MAPLE_LEAFS (YOU CAN DO IT!)
CALGARY_FLAMES (WHA?)

Way to go on the new stats page, Adam, it rocks!

- Thunder Bay Thunder Bayians

The next three games will mean a potential swing of points between 35 points for the rounds and blackhorse to a possible top of 95 for all picks and the blackhorse. Should I let the Leafs, Habs and Canucks players know the importance of what they are doing by way of a faxing campaign?!?!

hi al, having trouble with that math - where do you get 95 - i thought it was 5 for each team and twenty-five for dark horse which means 65 points?

If you get all eight you get 40 for the second round - but you also get 20 for the third and 10 for the finals as you have cornered the market. Plus you get 25 for the darkhorse and Montreal winning tonight keeps that part of my little dream alive. 40 + 20 + 10 + 25 = 95 points still possible. If I do not get the last three second round picks through over the next three games I lose my darkhorse and am left with 25 for the second round and, say, 10 for the third round. These are three big games for me in the pool.

I am sure the teams hear your pleas.

Did a quick check of the dark horses and a few Habs and a few Flames picks are still in play as is one brave Ottawa picker - Ottawa was in 5th place so qualifies. Someone is shown as having picked Philadelphia as the dark horse. Was that changed in time? Too bad as it had to be a lower half of the conference team. So...now all I needs is Vancouver and the Leafs to join the Habs through to the second round.

once again, every year, i hate the habs.

My 2 cents of the demise - yet again - Bruins is this: it was like watching a schoolyard on the day that the little smart fast guys figured out how to deal with the not so smart big guys. The Habs avoided checks, gave some of their own, sat back and waited. It was Ali and the Rope-a-Dope. Smart as opposed to the (yawn) Senators doing practice drills with the Leafs on the ice.

Oh, it's gonna be a great baseball season. Red Sox just took 3 of 4 from the Yankees.

Montreal who?

Oh, my picks:

+ DETROIT_RED_WINGS
- NJ_DEVILS
+ TAMPA_BAY_LIGHTNING
+ COLORADO_AVALANCHE
- BOSTON_BRUINS
+ SAN_JOSE_SHARKS
? TORONTO_MAPLE_LEAFS
+ CALGARY_FLAMES

A possible 6 of 8.

I loved the keep-away Montreal was playing on the Bruins in the corners last night. Was that just to demotivate them? Nice work boys. Back and forth, back and forth.

If only the Bruins could have played Toronto in the first round. It would make Adam's life more interesting here.

i just looked through all the picks...only one person has the possibility of getting all 8 teams...chucky and he picked ottawa...their dark horse was st.louis. Adam and I as it turns out has identical team and dark horse picks....GO CALGARY!!!! Can you hear me, I am yelling...as most of my players are now in the off-season or injured .......................

I think next year we add increased points for further rounds - 10 points per team in the third round, 20 points per team in the finals. Maybe 25 bonus for the Conn Smyth winner, too. All picked before the first puck drops of course.

i think that's somewhat extravagant.....but am agreeable to changes....like the Conn Smyth winner idea

Every year we add one or two. I think in 1997 it was just scorers and goons.

We haven't added any for the past 3 years.... I haven't wanted to change the code! :-)

By the way, round points have been calculated and added to the mix!

Grinder: team to force (be part of) the most 7-game series.

Have fun coding that one, Adam:)

Ahh... round two, when Canadians finally get to tackle the Americans. (Well apart from Montreal; that's Quebec and people usually forget Boston when naming American cities).

Adam, don't hate us for what you will hear from Canadians while watching these series. Also note that Detroit is close enough to Canada to be favoured here. You might even hear them called the "South Windsor Red Wings" or simply "Windsor Massive".

Any one want to predict any 4 game sweeps?

Adam: isn't the double your goon points new this year?

We had the double the goon points if the goon gets tossed last year too, I think. Haven't had to exercise it yet though! What a kind and gentle place the NHL is becoming....

I know. I was so pleased to see Domi get 4 minutes last night. No real idiot-fests yet. I have high hopes for the Broad Street BUllies changing that.

The blackhorse rule. Only lower half conference teams count so only the Habs and Flames picks count. If both go out this round, the last team in the round wins. If both go out on the same game in their respective series, the Habs win as they were a 7 seed while the Flames were a 6 seed. Currently, the Flames are 1-1 in their series while the Habs are 0-1.

Hang on - the CBC website is two-faced. See: it calls Calgary both a 6 and 7 seed. Rule still applies but if Calgary was in fact also a 7 seed and both Calgary and the Habs go out in the same game in the same round we are going with the better goal difference...not goals for or goals against but the diff.

Shouldn't Detroit be considered North Windsr seeing as how it's, well, north of Windsor?

CBC website is obviously incorrect. Calgary is the sixth seed.

Excuse me, I am composing on Lynx.
Looks like there might be a few 4 games sweeps.
Also, Detroit is also to the West. But the USA is the neighbour to the South, despite Alaska, Minnesota, Montana etc being north of me, so no dice.

Talk of sweeps! Is this the end of the Colorado as a cup contender? <p>Also, please pray with me for one Habs win. I know my own ring hollow after decades of cursing.

As a long time Bruins fan, I have no sympathy for the Habs.

Marcia will tell me that if they do well, it makes Boston look better for not having fallen to a bunch of complete incompetents.... but the vindictive side of me just wants revenge! So I'm kinda hoping for a sweep! :-)

My only interest is blackhorse points.

Nightmare final before a year long strike: Tampa Bay v. San Jose.

wrong! calgary vs. toronto but the other certainly is a nightmare!

Deny! At least the all Canadian final has the US fans thinking at least someone is appreciating it. That being said, Tampa Bay was amazing. Too bad their jerseys look like a bad porn movie director's idea of what a hockey jersey might look like.

*sigh* - talking about a strike.
How will the people live?
Won't someone please think of the children?

Didn't Reagan break-up an air traffic control strike by replacing them all? There are more than enough hockey players to go around.

I'd be willing to be a captain. But I'm not very good, so I'd have to be captain of say, Boston.

I think Tampa/Calgary would be a bigger nightmare for Bettman. At least San Jose is a big TV market. On the other hand having a southwest team against a 'small market' Canadian team that isn't supposed to be able to compete under the current CBA would give him fits and weaken his position in CBA negotiations. If Calgary can make it to the final on a $27 million payroll there sure won't be many ways to argue in favour of a salary cap or 'cost certainty.'

Did Manny Legace play the full five games required for points? I suppose he will get added in. In think maybe next year goals could be 2 points to overcome their dilution by the other elements of the pool.

Legace played 4 games. Actually, he played 220 minutes, so 3 games plus 2 periods. No points.

Any dispute of Ben's observations? Keep in mind that he has every opportunity to come back in but if the Wings are out under CuJo, the grim reaper of <i>les pointages</i> will have his way.

Yes. manny won't count if he doesn't play again....But what do you mean goalies worth 2 points (i.e. double)??....Nah! That is too much.......worth enough already, if it was worth double, there would be no way to catch up to someone with khabibulin. I already am extraordinarily conflicted about my wish for the leafs to win and belfour to get scored on (if it were double which is what i think you meant), I wouldn't know where to turn.....What fighting! I hope Domi isn't involved.

Just realized you meant goals not goals against....not adverse to goals being double! :)

Do you think you are in a little deep, Little Zed? It's just a pool.

But what a pool and what a game! Was there ever a better executed breakaway goal than Sundin to Molgilny?

Deep.....who me? Just hankering for a Bill Root card :)

Freaky. It's like one of those stories where the main character gets entirely obsessed with an inanimate object - "The Monkey's Paw" or Gogol's "The Overcoat"

Alright, alright.... three things:

1. We never got our Bill Root card from a few years ago when we won, so I can understand Little Zed's hankering for such a beast.

B. Dark Horse points have been awarded to the fortunate few that picked Calgary!

III. I quite like the nickname "Little Zed".... think I'll start using that one around the house. ;-)

You are in luck as I have about 37 Bill Root cards around here somewhere - let me see what I can find...

> Did Manny Legace play the full five games
> required for points? I suppose he will get
> added in. In think maybe next year goals
> could be 2 points to overcome their dilution
> by the other elements of the pool.

NO NO _PLEASE_ don't make us lose our *FIVE* goalie points.

The hockey pool rule book is a cruel mistress...

Can BCrocker be caught? Definitely. The last two rounds are when the scorers come through and he is at risk of having fewer left than others. Plus he does not have Tampa Bay in his picks which means 10 points lost to those who have if Tampa gets to the finals. [The neat thing about the pool as it has developed is how the different factors become important at different phases.] If Calgary wins over Detroit, however, he is well placed.

One way is surely to have Domi get a misconduct and a game misconduct - something to offset the effect the goals will have on Belfour's average. What is <i>les pointage</i> for misconduct?

According to the NHL Rule book, Rules 28(a) and 28(c):<blockquote class="smalltext">(a) In the event of "MISCONDUCT" penalties to any players except the goalkeeper, the players shall be ruled off the ice for a period of ten (10) minutes each. A substitute player is permitted to immediately replace a player serving a misconduct penalty. A player whose misconduct penalty has expired shall remain in the penalty box until the next stoppage of play.<p>

(c) A "GAME MISCONDUCT" penalty involves the suspension of a player for the balance of the game but a substitute is permitted to replace immediately the player so removed. A player incurring a game misconduct penalty shall incur an automatic fine of two hundred dollars ($200) and the case shall be reported to the Commissioner who shall have full power to impose such further penalties by way of suspension or fine on the penalized player or any other player involved in the altercation.</blockquote>According to the CBC Box Score for this afternoon's game, Domi got a misconduct and a game misconduct at 8:34 of the third period. It is pretty clear that the misconduct is worth 10 minutes, therefore ten points. Our rules on penalty minutes reads as follows:<blockquote class="smalltext">A point for a penalty minute by a goon. If your goon is kicked out of the pool you double the penalty minutes he has achieved to that point. The logic here is that the goon is a nut-bar. The later that he freaks and gets tossed for the balance of the playoffs, the more nut-bar like he is, the more he is the essential goon.</blockquote>I do not think in eight years we have had a game misconduct. I am going to suggest only another 10 points as if we go farther we are skewing the weighting and effect of both the darkhorse team and the goon suspended for the balance of the playoffs. Comments?

i think we have to go by the original rules, but we can certainly put in a new rule for next year re game misconducts. another new thought re next year's rules: triple points for overtime goals?
Can the Leafs recover? - they looked like they were a minor hockey league team.

...but I do not think there is an original rule on the game misconduct. Do you think there is? The misconduct is clearly ten minutes but the game misconduct has to count for something additionally but not too much.

Ok so I get FIVE goalie points that probably aren't going to count and I have to read how Domi's goon points are excessive? If ever there's a guy who's going to bring a gun on the ice, it's Domi, hence my choice for goon. Friggen Khabibulin pickers and other grumbles...

I'd like to add that the Calgary fiasco could have been avoided with a little application of Legace. :)

Don't stop believing, TBTB!

I think we should have a side pool for who is going to win the pool.

Side pool? Alright, but I'm not writing the code. ;-)

It is brutal. I was just checking and the #10 guy out of forty three in the pool has no scorers left if things go the way it is likely. I have none left in the west and one Tampa and one Flyer. I see only one player with three scorers left. Will any goons make the third round? This must be the most unexpected set of results in the playoffs since the pool began.

Round points for the conference semi-finals have been added. Also, Little Zed found some errors in stats for people who picked players that have not played... specifically some of the goons. I've applied fixes to these, but let me know if you see anything that's incorrect.

i am just glad calgary is left as i would stop watching i think if they weren't in it.....it is really strange driving in toronto without all the leafs flags....actually there are at least a couple of teams that have five philadelphia players that are down towards the bottom - one with a phillie goon - i have a calgary goon (who i chose in a deep haze i think mistaking minutes played for penalty minutes)....Anyway, will the Maple Leafs' drought parallel the Red Sox? 94 years for the Red Sox...The Boston community is significantly more patient than Toronto's.

We, the Leafs/Sox fans, really have to wonder why we are what we are.

Red Sox names that will live in infamy:

Bill Buckner
Grady Little

.... oh never mind.

This site says it all. :-(

I just wanted to announce that our team is changing names to the Thunder Bay Thunder Bayesians.

Way to go Adam #2.

Neat developments in the pool after last night's game........People from the bottom of the pool are moving on up and still a number of teams with active players, active goons and sctive goalies who are materializing as contenders from the basement.

oh my god! i am winning the pool!

Glad to let a little sunshine into your life, Hans! It would be neat to have a standings range-o-dometer so we could see our high and low extremes. I hit 2nd but won't see that again.

precisely why i wanted to record my pool climax: i think it will be all too brief!

A "range-o-dometer"? More features.... ack. Will have to rewrite the code next year... it's kinda due for a rewrite anyway. It's currently powered by glue and duct tape. Would like to put a database back end on it, and rewrite the front end entirely.

Just dreamin', Adam. Do not go to any extra efforts. I think it is neat tracking these third round shifts and how different the whole thing looks from the first round.

Standing a cool 100 points behind the frontrunner turns the mind toward new rules. Two proposals: 1) bonus points for being exactly 100 points behind; or, 2) bonus points for calling the IIHF Men's World Championship gold medal team. The tournament takes place annually during the Stanley Cup playoffs, and you don't need special hockey knowledge to make a pick, just know the names of about six to twelve hockey playing countries.

I say 100 points for all pool players if Canada or a Scandenavian team wins the IIHF gold. Would that suffice?

That's only good for me if it's tied into the 100-points-behind bonus. Do you think the software can handle handicapping? Frinstance, three points if Canada wins the gold, 300 if Kazakhstan?

I like to say Adam can do anything as I have no idea how he finds the time to do this and we pay him nothing - even holding back well earned Bill Root cards. The only way I see the 100-behind bonus working is if there is also a 100 points prize for being in a pool where someone else is 100 points behind. <p>I do think drinks are on the house whenever Kazakhstan wins the cup.

so what was the ruling on different misconducts :) (my goon has begun gooning!) very neat pool developments!

I think all misconducts are 10. So if you get a misconduct you get 10 but if you get a misconduct and a game misconduct you get 20. This isn't going to sink me further in the pool is it?

no-don't worry - adam's code automatically factors in misconducts and game misconducts.

oh fleeting fortune! shine once more on me! and tell roenick to get the lead out!

Is Ze-dada Fred?

Zedada is none other than the Little Zed herself.

Hokey Kabokie!

Can you believe it?????
However, I would rather the Flames be winning than Simon be gooning.
By the way, is Ellen Portland? and if so, why?
But WOW! It is fun being on top.

Fred does not have the wherewithal in hockey to pick a single player.

I would never question the latent powers of Fred and you can tell him I said that. portland is not my goodly spouse.

have the stats been updated yet today? i think i'm due for at least one point as martin st. louis got an assist last night.

Should have been.......Get updated automatically daily.......You should have had 3 points - as Brashear got a penalty as well. Did it not update?

thanks! i think the goon stats had been updated but not the scorer. here's hoping for another major brawl!

It is heartening that the jocks Marcia and Hans are going to be the two duking it out for the beloved Bill Root card.

Hans pointed out an error in the way that points for St. Louis were being registered... they weren't!

A fix has been applied... sorry Little Zed!

Points for the conference finals have been awarded.

Bill Who?

The Bill Root card is what you will win: see here for the bio.

Exciting times at the top of the pool...where I used to be...<p>Mike from Halifax is making a run for the prize now sitting in third behind Marcia from Toronto and Hans in PEI. This is most extraordinary as he did not win the 25 darkhorse points and he did not pick well on the rounds. He is muscling his way up purely on scoring picks. Amazing.

looking at mikes scorers, i would say he will win if tb wins.... although chris simon will continue to goon in every calgary loss, so zedada may still have the upper hand. either way, i fear my days at the top of the pool will not be revisited. oh well, as they say in toronto: there's always next year.

Unless there is a couple of 10-0 wins by the Lightning, it is looking very much like a twin set of Bill Root cards heading toward the Big Smoke soon. Tonight we are having a steak dinner in honour of Calgary, not a place I usually celebrate due only to a tedious roomie of the mid-80s who went on and on about the place...and on and on and on....and on.

Hmm, I'm tempted to concede, but I guess we'll have to play out the last game; I would be happy with a 9-8 Calgary victory with Iginla staying off the scoresheet. ... could happen ... in theory ...

That was a pretty good game last night. Too bad a somewhat sucky goal ended it but at least it was my pick that scored it.

WOW. Very close. I am sorry about Calgary losing. Can't believe how close the pool got. Way to go Adam on a pool well done.

Indeed - email your address Marcia for a special presentation version of the Bill Root prize which I will post a picture of before it gets in the mail. I feel inclined to give you second and third place awards, too, so if Mike and Hans can send their postals, glory awaits. Adam, thanks again for running the pool - keeping the dream alive. What shall we do next year. I think Mike proves the 2-1 goals is not required. Could it be we have achieved perfection? <p>Had I just not scratched out Clagary and Jermomes name that night in April things could have been so different...<p>On to the election pool!

thanks for running the pool, guys. i enjoyed it (especially toward the end!).

Send that email for your prize.

i can't seem to locate your email address.

It is under "email me" to the upper left. Click on it and your computer should generate an email template to mail me.

Ah yes, the end of another pool! Now what'll I do every morning? I guess I'll be relegated to checking if the spam filter picked up any new spam!

I have the address of only the third prize winner. I am serious this year - little parcels will actually go in the mail. I feel like Paul Martin promising care care once again - "this time I mean it...honest...no lie!"

Hey, you guys are pretty lax in setting up this year's hockey pool. I think it would be a 26-way tie.

We need to think AHL this year.