... Did the stimulus work? Here's what you need to think... because that's my job. Telling you what to think:
- Why not say so? Why can't we take a little pride in the fact that a little government intervention did the trick? Tax dollars in action.
- What was the alternative? Did you really fall in with those dopes on the far right who wanted stimlus to fail? What would that do? Hurt your neighbour, your town, yourself? How far does the smug satisfaction of ideological purity get us all?
- I want to look forward to the next new bubble economy. I want green cars and windmills not so much for what they do as what they provide - an active economy. If it were up to me, gas lawn mowers would be outlawed and everyone (else) would go buy a push mower. Open the push mower factory doors wide!
- Do you really want a Federal election based on doubt and fear? Frankly, I am happy as all get out without a bunch of newbies getting into office for the next year or so. Sure lets have a fall 2010 election but that's only two years for the Tories in office in Ottawa. They've even finally got the hang of playing a bit nice with Ontario. Look - they may be goofy and tick off Jay but they also seem harmless, right??
- Best of all, we get to call out the naysayers and tell them that the economy works, that we are not facing the collapse of market based mixed socialist capitalism and that they are 'fraidy cats. Nothing worse that economic friady cats.
We need post-recession street parties. Jingles about whipping the nation back into shape. Just like we live in a post-post 9/11 world, we also may be living in a post recession one, too, now. Bring back the happy songs. Bring back cake on Tuesdays at lunch.
Comments
Ben (The Tiger) - September 1, 2009 9:17 AM
Didn't the Europeans steer clear of stimulus? Aren't they doing better than the Americans? (Are they doing better than the Canadians?)
Would doing nothing have worked just as well?
Alan - September 1, 2009 10:10 AM
OK, if the government does nothing then there is no financial sector due to the credit default swap fiasco and there is not GM or Chrysler and whole states in the US go bankrupt. That's something that would work for everyone, right? Look, I know that Rush never mentions this but that's because Rush is not that bright and is not actually out for the national best interest.
Europe didn't have to fix the problem maybe because Europe didn't have the problem - except for Iceland.
Robert McClelland - September 1, 2009 10:11 AM
I don't know if it worked--there seems to be scant evidence that any of the stimulus money is actually being spent in London yet--but I do love that most conservative pundits have become rabid Keynesians. That alone is worth the billions.
Stu - September 1, 2009 10:49 AM
The infrastructure funding hasn't been received yet. Even if and when it does arrive, the timing was such that you won't see "shovels in the ground" until next year.
Surely you can't be serious about more windmills being able to see first-hand the defacement of Wolfe Island and the awful vista from K-town?
Ben (The Tiger) - September 1, 2009 11:34 AM
Canada didn't have its financial sector in trouble, did it?
Less than 1% of Canadian mortgages were of the subprime sort...
Still not seeing the need for the January 2009 "open the floodgates!" budget; sympathize with McClelland's laugh moment, as I'm still not a Keynesian.
Alan - September 1, 2009 1:35 PM
I love the look of windmills. It is so great when activism puts its money where its mouth is.
Ben: I am flipping back and forth across the border. In my comment I am clearly talking about the US. There were waves of stimulus in the US back into the Bush administration. We can't abide by ideas like "Obama's recession" is we are to stay sane.
Ben (The Tiger) - September 1, 2009 3:34 PM
Oh, sure.
I go back and forth on the bank bailouts...
But this post was about Harper, no? And Canada.
Re the US -- we may yet have a double-dip recession. Not going to start running around yelling "the recession is over!" just yet, south of the border.
(Of course, if the US has a bad enough double-dip, that could take down Canada, too...)
ry - September 1, 2009 11:31 PM
Don't know yet, Al. The metrics seem fuzzy. Some things are up, but others are still very much down. Like, citing Robert Reiche, the Bigs are doing well, but the Littles(like the mom and pop shops, the proto-Walmarts, etc) are still hurting pretty bad.
I don't know if stimulus worked, and you know I was arguing in favor of them, much to the consternation of the Castle crowd, during alla this. I think it was wise, but I don't know if i can say unequivaclly that it worked.
Jay Currie - September 2, 2009 5:46 AM
If "ticking off Jay" will help stave off recession I'm all for it!
The problem is that while we here in the Oak Bay enclave are doing just fine there are lots of people who don't have jobs and are not likely to get jobs anytime soon. But, and here is where the whole stimulus/0 interest rate thing gets a bit silly, there are also people in bidding wars for houses largely because they have a pre-approved mortgage for 500k on the basis that they are still employed.
The real estate bubble in Canada had a quick cough and in a number of cities simply carried on. At some point unemployment is going to meet the real estate market and something will give. And the longer the day is postponed the nastier the consequences.
Is the recession over? Well, Alan, you are just old enough to remember the tag line from Jaws II, "Just When You thought it was Safe to go in the Water Again" (And for extra cheesy...try this.)
Alan - September 2, 2009 8:40 AM
I have also lived through enough recessions to recall that they end. But few have a lot emotionally invested in ending the recession as we live in a reasonable clench of fear. But, to answer ry, we may not yet be able to confirm how it worked but I think it is fair to say it did not fail.
Ben (The Tiger) - September 2, 2009 9:18 AM
We may have a double-dip, but our world is still here.
Mike C - September 2, 2009 5:34 PM
ry/Al - that's fair to say. I have a feeling we are heading for a double-dip, following a larger American one.
The US debt situation, and the structural weakness in the US economy (heavily reliant on consumer spending/credit), doesn't bode well for the US dollar. Could be harder times ahead for Cdn exporters.
What might actually mitigate the currency problem might be if the Chinese economy doesn't keep churning along and therefore we see less demand for oil - the Loonie would perhaps then not be as weak against the US dollar.
Like I know anything. 8-)