Gen X at 40

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Jay Currie -

To a point I agree with you Alan. What has changed is that people have realized that the government is not always the best solution. They have also realized that there is no source of revenue for the government save the taxpayer.

As well, people have had time to look at the fallout of the great expansion of government under Mr. Trudeau and, later, under Mr. Mulroney. I don't think they are terrifically impressed.

Which means that wandering about the country promising to spend a lot of money or create society changing programs is not as attractive as it once was.

David Janes -

A we're a country that believes in antiismism. And of course, the dividing line between people believe this and those who don't define the antiismism schism.

Alan -

I see a big difference between spending a lot of money or create society changing programs.

Were the promise to upgrade infrastructure by 70 billion - the real gem in the Grit platform - really structured in the proper way, it could be an anti-ism-istic infusion of government spending within the proper government realm that could be a corner piece of general economic expansion.

The Green shift, for God's sake, if presented with more emphasis of R+D support, could change society by leveraging private prosperity thought the brainiac sector as well as the manufacturing sector.

Neither would create societal goods or a vast increase in bureaucracy. But each would be based on hefty public spending where the government, frankly, does as good or a better economic job than the private sector. CPC retraction of government as a policy, in comparison, offers stagnation and slipping into deficit through imprudent management...as Tory-nomics always does.

Why can't the Grits frame their own argument in this way? How it is that they have abandoned the economic moral high ground that Chretien so skillfully asserted?

Jay Currie -

I'll leave the delights of infrastructure upgrades to those of you in the front lines - though why municipalities cannot simply raise the taxes they need to keep the bridges and sewers in repair is a bit of a mystery. What value do the feds bring to the infrastructure equation.

On the r&d elements of the Green Shift there are a couple of issues. First, the Greenies don't want to believe that there is a techno fix. From the religious perspective of the deep Greens this is the wrong sort of salvation. (And don't even think about nukes as they are the accused work of tech Satans.) Second, a lot of the promising r&d is already fully funded by private capital looking to make a buck. It is not an obviously efficient place for the feds to be spending money. (Remember Scientific Research Tax Credits - the feds are horrible at "picking winners" and frankly should not even try.)

The final thing: global warming is pretty much done as both a political and a scientific issue. The science has been downgraded to "climate change", the "consensus" (never very much more than a political sleight of hand) is falling apart and NASA is having a press conference Tuesday on the Sun, "“The sun’s current state could result in changing conditions in the solar system.” Dr. Hansen will not be present.

Alan -

"...though why municipalities cannot simply raise the taxes they need to keep the bridges and sewers in repair is a bit of a mystery..."

Well, the tax base is the issue. No corporate tax, hotel tax, income tax or sales tax powers allocated to municipalities yet municipalities stiffed with most infrastructure used on a daily basis. This is aside from the royalties that our "betters" in some provinces receive from the sap that flows from the ground.

So just looking at Kingston's new $115,000,000 sewer treatment facility upgrade, the 116,000 of Kingston would each have to pay over $1,000 for this one additional facility and only through real estate taxes. Which means I might have to pay over $10,000 on my modest 1960s bungalow as a one year premium given the distribution of realty taxes. Next year, I may have to pay that much for the next capital project, the next year another capital project - keeping in mind the basic capital infrastructure requirements are often mandated by regulation at the provincial or even Federal level.

Without the full range of revenue, no capacity to cover the full range of responsibilities. Mystery solved.

David Janes -

Well, someone's going to have to pay for it and it's not like no one else will need this sort of upgrade either! Municipal items such as water, sewer, roads etc. should amortized over long periods of time so that everyone who enjoys the benefit (e.g. future residents) will also help pay the cost. When you do that, the yearly cost of comes down quite significantly.

Alan -

And if you amortize the annual projects across the same limited tax base you have me spending an extra 10,000 in real estate taxes for multiple projects and interest - which is the exact same place.

And people on septic systems who regularly come into cities for all the benefits of urban centres don't pay for this stuff if it's all on the real property taxpayer.

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