Ja 'member? That was good.
Apparently that thing called "the West" that stretches from the BC's eastern border to the far western reaches of Saskatchwan is up in arms about the rest of Canada getting in bed with the separatists. They are so mad they are planning to separate. Jay seems to be going that way and Darcey is well past that point and even uses some sweary Mary language to describe his feelings. So a few questions:
- Will you feel better or worse if PM Harper manages to hold on to power?
- Would the Tories have a better chance of maintaining power if Harper quits and they reverse policies to return to the center?
- What the heck is the coalition actually going to do? Do you want them to rule from the center?
- Why isn't the Bloc legitimate? I mean I support Scottish separatism or a degree of useful autonomy if the people want it.
- And isn't "the West" threatening to separate as a group of Albertans suggest because the Liberals have made a pact with the Quebec separatists just a teensie-weensie bit odd? Who stands for the nation?
For me, it started with Mulroney and the cutting of national programs like the train and the post office. Maybe even further back and the changes to the military's uniforms and structure. It continued for another two decades with more and more removing and cutting and denigration of the land as a whole in favour of local interests and a do nothing attitude. The Government of Canada is for disassembling. It's not so much as these programs and institutions were sacred but they were not replaced by anything that made the federation stronger.
Recently, I had the honour to go to a US village council on official business and witnessed the pledge of allegiance being recited before the meeting began. It was a casual, competent and fully aware moment of commonality by everyone of all persuasions in the room that could have been played out anywhere in the nation. Not jingoism. They just love their country. We have nothing like that. Maybe we did once.
Comments
Darcey - December 2, 2008 10:02 am
* I'd feel better if everybody did their jobs
* No, the mandate is power
* Three statists. I figure they will feed the groups they find most beneficial - unions, ect..
* Is the Bloc legitimate? I seen a letter somebody from Lethbridge wrote asking to be an Alberta Bloc MP and was turned down because their interests only exist for Quebec
* I never made that argument. Mine is you have people who are possibly going into power next week who have directly threatened the western economy and they are cheered on by the Alberta can blow me crowd. Spend some time on a Globe and Mail comment thread for the general idea.
sean - December 2, 2008 10:05 am
I can say with honesty, I have donated to the SNP in the past at the suggestion of my father, a former Black Watch guy who spent many a year in a kilt.
If Harper sticks around, I know it will be a cringe fest for a year or two as he nips and snips at everyone around him baiting them to vote against his pushy agenda. As crude drops in price, he'll begin having to help out the oil industry to maintain support and when he says no, as he will have to at some point, he'll just start making enemies there too. He will get grumpier and grumpier.. oy to have to work with THAT boss.
I am always happiest with a centrist government that has its toes in the waters of the left.
Alan - December 2, 2008 10:06 am
I never meant to suggest the arguments were yours or that my points were in specific response. If that came across, I apologize.
Please don't make me read a G+M comment thread. ;-)
Alan - December 2, 2008 10:14 am
By the way, I am reviving the notion of a National Bloggers Parliament. We should have a means through a structured forum to debate and vote as a community of bloggers. I raised the idea somewhere in these over 4,500 posts back in the day. Can't find the references now.
Hans - December 2, 2008 10:24 am
"These foolish games are
breaking my heart."
--Jewel, Foolish Games
Ben (The Tiger) - December 2, 2008 10:30 am
1. Not sure. I like Harper a lot, but... meh. I like my political theatre.
2. I think it just would have taken Harper quitting -- this thing is personal; that said, alia jacta est -- even Harper quitting and a full retreat now would not be good enough.
3. Be hilarious.
4. They're legit enough -- but if you bed down with them even temporarily, expect this kind of stuff to be hurled at you.
5. Traditionally, Ontario. Incidentally, Ontario elected Tories in numbers not seen since Mulroney's first ministry. (Poor Peter Kent!)
Ben (The Tiger) - December 2, 2008 10:33 am
You remember the line from "The Good Shepherd" -- "We <i><b>are</b></i> the United States. The rest of you are just visiting."? That's Ontario's role in Canada.
Jay Currie - December 2, 2008 2:07 pm
As my old professor Keith Spicer memorably put it - "There is an anger in this land."
After being fed the Liberal Party/National Media line that to co-operate with Quebec separatists was pretty much treasonous there is the Toronto Party, with the Annex Media, on its knees co-operating.
From a Western perspective this is Diefenbaker and the NEP rolled into one.
Rule from the Center, for Heavens sake Alan, name a really right wing thing Harper has done in office.
Frankly I hope the Coalition seizes power. It will demonstrate pretty much once and for all that much as the West "wants in" the East - or rather Toronto and enclaves - still believes it has a right to rule Canada (even when it doesn't, you know, win very many seats. And the droit de seigneur exercised by the Bloc prior to the NDP/Toronto Party nuptuials will put paid to the idea that the Liberal Party loves Canada more than power.
zoop - December 2, 2008 5:11 pm
1. Yes.
2. No, their policies are smart, cohesive, and effective. Who says they are moving away from the centre anyway.
3. I don't want the coalition to rule at all, they didn't earn that privilege.
4. The Bloc is clearly politically legitimate, no one is saying otherwise. They're saying the Bloc's aim is to divide Canada, and that's a dangerous thing to toy with. The policy of provincial autonomy you praise is exactly the Tory policy and the exact opposite of the centrist policies of the left.
5. The pact was forged by three leaders from Quebec and aims to return power to the Toronto Party. You obviously live in central Canada if you don't understand why that is offensive to the rest of us.
Alan - December 2, 2008 5:20 pm
I think I would have some respect for answer #5 if you hadn't answered #1 in such a stunned fashion.
Any by "to the rest of us" I take it you mean a minority % of the 55-65% of conservative Albertans who make up 13% of the nation. So we are to obey the will of around 3%. Very democratic.
Matthew Fletcher - December 2, 2008 6:33 pm
"The pact was forged by three leaders from Quebec and aims to return power to the Toronto Party. You obviously live in central Canada if you don't understand why that is offensive to the rest of us."
"The rest of US"!?
Who the hell are you, and the US?! I could understand being offended, by the totally unprecedented seizure of power that appears likely to take place -fine. But to be offended by the fact that the people are from Quebec, Toronto and Central Canada is disgraceful in its divisive nativism. If this is the way you and other people think then Alan is right - there is no way we can transcend our small differences and recognize that we are all Canadian. If you can't recognize that everyone involved in this is just as Canadian as you, if you can only be offended that certain people are from other areas of the country, then we are on the road to ruin regardless of the outcome of this little constitutional crisis.
Temujin - December 2, 2008 11:46 pm
Not to get all caught up in percentages and mandates and democracy and will of the majority, but I reckon "none of the above" won this most recent round of voterin'. But screw them, their choice doesn't matter.
Darcey's anecdote on point #4 is even more interesting in light of Quebec's voter turnout for this upcoming provincial election. Their turnout for the previous federal election was around 58%. Imagine a separate Quebec containing a large group of people that were indifferent to the whole process of deciding whether they would separate!
<i>The Government of Canada is for disassembling.</i>
If only that were really true, perhaps we wouldn't live in a grossly bloated, bureaucratic, nightmarish nanny state with more rules, regulations, and laws than anyone could possibly ever hope to keep track of :-)
Alan - December 2, 2008 11:50 pm
...If only that were really true, perhaps we wouldn't live in a grossly bloated, bureaucratic, nightmarish nanny state with more rules, regulations, and laws than anyone could possibly ever hope to keep track of :-)...
And yet an economic miracle.
sean - December 3, 2008 10:00 am
Gotta say, I'm with Matthew on his response. Us.. give US a break.