"Despite all the politics made of them by those who don't care for dissent"

Bwa ha ha ha ha ha!!!

The Chicks are cute.

"... dopey but well-backed folk who have access to microphones and who are used to stamping out voices of opposition"

Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!

Oh, I am breathless... stop... stop...

Just because you have junior Rush pajamas, Flea, doesn't mean you have to like everything he says.

Speak truth to power! Vive le Phrance!

Seriously though, don't get me started about Nick Manojlovich. The rumours are alarming.

Perhaps this is all too much for you, then, Nick and the Chicks. My point is also not that the substance of dissent is shared by me so much as the actual act of dissenting is in itself being attacked (unsuccessfully as it turned out) by the last vestiges of the waning counter-revolution.

On the contrary, it is your attitude that people should be forced to purchase albums from people with whom they disagree that is crushing dissent. Or is it only "dissent" when it involves sophomoric remarks about the President?

Seeing as I am more acquainted with me, I can confirm you are incorrect. I have no such attitude. Note my last sentence in the post. I do not buy their albums. But if they made an all bluegrass one - even with political content - I would. That, in fact, would make an excellent platform. Sadly, there is too much "new country" and "southern rock" in their concert song stylings - more of the first on their CDs. I am not a big fan of either form of music <p>But I am concerned as I entirely lack attitude as a matter of personal creed. Crushing dissent can be in the nature of media concentrations black-listing artists who voice views against the business interests of the media conglomerates. This I understand was the subject of a US Senate hearing so I do not think that a trivial matter as it is a misuse of the public broadcast bands under FCC rules. But how do the Dixie Chicks force anyone to buy their CDs? I do not understand your point. Is it somewhat tied to Jamie Oliver and the British school cafeteria question? I need more from you on this.

And I assure you I am no fan of Rush Limbaugh. Hyperbole may ebb as it flows.

Commercial radio stations may choose not to feature an artist as a result of the convictions of the owners or because of the objections of the listening audience. They have, for the moment, the freedom to make these choices; to dissent, as it were. The notion that people are obligated to continue to support an artist they find objectionable is, once again, an attempt to "crush dissent" by stereotyping it in all the ways Chicks supporters have done.

Fair enough. I should have never written that about the jammies. I though the idea of you in Rush Limbaugh jammies was both a glorious and sufficiently doubly ironic image so as not to be hurtful. Once again we learn that allusions to the jammies of others is perilous territory and I apologize.<p>I don't think that US radio stations are not actually allowed to exclude political content as a result of the convictions of the owners if it go to a certain degree. But i speak from ignorance. Yet that is not key as it was those stations and their conservative overlords that made the issue of this band's point of view, lumping it in with Michael Moore to form a larger leftist boogieman. All the Dixie Chicks said was that they were embarrassed that Bush was from their home state of Texas. Voom - all of a sudden they are satanic, unpatriotic and the rest. The Dixie Chicks one might imagine have strengthened Al Queda (and by the way...do we know if there is an "Alex" or "Alec" Kyda out there anywhere who has had to do much explaining over the last few years?) John Stewart or even Jay Leno on the Tonight Show provide a hundred times more detailed and intelligent criticism in their opening monologues but they are preaching to the choir and also dangerous to take on for conservatives. No, it is far easier to characterize a band like this as disloyal to "the south" or "the President" when they really do not much focus on that. There is far more "I'm getting out of this dead-end town" in the music which, unlike Springsteen's version, is not a trip for his "Wendy", too. Their Earl ends up in the lake as they depart. They are far more a C+W Indigo Girls, and certainly more so than I had thought. <p>I say it was not their call that to oppose is mandated, only to be seriously considered in these troubled times. It started as the opposite and from the opposite - that to oppose authority is to be unpatriotic. That is the absolutism at play here as I see it.<p>Reminder: I know nothing.

"(O)ppose authority"... "absolutism"... There's that knee-twitching again. People are under no obligation to agree with the authority of the Dixie Chicks however much they appear to believe this to be so. Talk about absolutism. Talk about an abuse of "patriotism". As if patriotism consisted only of disagreeing with the President and taking care to do so in the most offensive way possible. This is the central fact that keeps tripping the left's dissent-meter. It is only dissent if it agrees with the lock-step double plus good opinions of the Chick's new decidedly non-Southern audience. It is only dissent of the South is lampooned in the process.

Again, Jay Leno and John Stewart say far more offending things. The Chicks as political spokespersons were created by the right as straw men to knock down and use to divide accordingly. It is the absolutism of the right that I was referring to in the comment above. It is they that say to oppose is unpatriotic. Your leg ought to twitch as such undemocratic unAmerican jingoism.

If I understand you correctly, "conservatives" are "afraid" of Jay Leno. This strikes me as most unlikely. But were it the case, the public has as much right to avoid supporting his show and its sponsors as it does not to support the Dixie Chicks. Again, only an absolutist mind-set would insist people are obligated to listen to or watch artists or performers they find objectinable. Two legs good, etc.

I think we do not disagree on this point and perhaps my fault is not having unrequested access to the considerations of those who you might be subject to on the subject of the politics of the Dixie Chicks. This may explain why I am not following your connection to the Chicks and forcing people to listen to things they find objectionable. How are they not like a radio station that can be turned off. The only think I see is that the right has created them as boogieman of convenience, boosting their profile. I do think that in the spinning agenda, the right likes to pick targets as representative that are easy to tear down (who doesn't). John Stewart in about 21 minutes showed how it is unwise to take him on. <p>I think that there is a certain constituency that Leno could likewise sway, but less young and hip. I only mention that as I know him to have superpowers due to one of his parents, like one of mine, being from Greenock Scotland which means they likely have excessive skills of oratory that you only trigger at certain moments. I suspect we have never seen him angry and, granted, likely won't.

<blockquote>
Perhaps this is all too much for you, then, Nick and the Chicks. My point is also not that the substance of dissent is shared by me so much as the actual act of dissenting is in itself being attacked (unsuccessfully as it turned out) by the last vestiges of the waning counter-revolution.
</blockquote>

<p>
Sorry Al, but what are you on about? Disagreeing loudly with what someone says is not attacking the _act_ of dissent, it's attacking the dissent itself. I'm surprised that you of all people believe that we should sit back, keep our mouths shut (or slightly open and drooling) and take lectures from people who style themselves our superiors. That's the absolute worst aspect of a culture of celebrity.

May I pop in this voiciferous discussion? I am not a fan of the girls (and I think the short one is fugly) but my feeling at the time was that anyone that showed dissent in the US was branded un-patriotic. Even a lot of celebs (who are in truth as important in life as hairy moles on ones back but I digress) who now speak their mind when back then (it has been a few years) stayed quiet in a McArthyesque fear concerned that they would be blacklisted. The patriotic sheep branded them bad simply for stating their minds. The radio stations in fear of being branded with the same iron jumped on the goosestepping bandwagon and joined the fervour not all of whom agreed with the reasoning behind it.

Go back to ignoring the elf in the cave. I'll go back to plotting revolution.

NO NO gorthos, she is cute!

The idea anyone could be blacklisted in Hollywood for loudly disagreeing with the President is frankly absurd.

And while I regard the point as an aside, I think Natalie Maines is extremely cute and her voice is wonderful. I loved the first two albums.

Yeah, like flea said.

I am fine and dandy with the Dixie Chicks saying whatever they want about the President, so long as they are prepared to reap the consequences of disagreement from others -- lower and higher -- in the food chain.

If some radio baron decides to mandate their removal from his/her 50 stations' playlist (for a mere 30 days, 3 years ago) then how does that constitute improper use of airwaves per FCC regulations? Cumulus (the media group that instituted the 30-day ban on its 50 C&W radio stations) is not a near-monopoly presence in the C&W radio segment, nor did it strong-arm other media groups into not playing the Chicks' songs for a month. If the FCC detected anything amiss they had the option of fining Cumulus or pulling their commercial radio licenses -- none of which occurred.

Nobody's First Amendment rights are being infringed upon, either; the Chicks still have the right to say what they want and to make money by recording and performing. But they don't have the right to force Cumulus to play their stuff over the airwaves and, incidentally, pay them royalties and residuals for doing so. For that matter none of us has the right to stand up in our place of employment and say whatever we want, either. If an object lesson is required just try insulting your boss' spouse to his/her face and see how it all plays out for you.

If the listeners' didn't like Cumulus' actions they would have been well within their rights to write letters, change stations and hit Cumulus where it hurts -- in the pocketbook. That no such action was forthcoming suggests that the action was popular with listeners, too. If there is a lesson to be drawn from the Chicks' example it is not that radio oligarchies or a culture of fear can ruin your career -- it is that failing to know your audience (and unfortunate defecation where you eat) <i>will</i> have negative implications for your revenue stream.

You have it exactly backwards, David. There is a concerted effort to tell these artist to "shut up and sing" by framing it as the obligation to not be unpatriotic/unAmerican/leftist. This is not about "Hollywoood", Fleaster, but getting the views of southern US radio in particular. One may not care or believe for whatever reason that this exists but I think one would have to believe in Santa and the Tooth Fairy to not understand that this sort of focused discrediting has been a hallmark of the American right. It may be true for the Democrats as well when and where they hold power but the same response would also be true.

Regardless of the substance of these artists views or any view for that matter, refusal to play along with any such agenda of discreditation is the point. Nothing to do with celebrity or Hollywood or any other boogieman of convenience.

I should correct myself in the workplace example by saying that we <I>do</i> have the right to say what we want in our workplace but we do not have the right to stay employed or be immune from the consequences of our speech.

Not that the Dixie Chicks would descend from their pedestal or righteous lock-step rebellion for anything as crass as filthy lucre. "Qui bono", notwithstanding.

We co-posted Chris. Actually such action was forthcoming as the sales of the new CD did exceed expectations (I think it came in at #1 for sales its first week did it not) without radio support. And so they showed they were speaking to and for their audience...which really doesn't include me except for the banjo and mandolin bits.

So... if the Dixie Chicks sales were up the entire notion their "dissent" was being "crushed" is an even greater farce than if, heaven forbid, the mere people had dared to disagree with their clever insights about how President Bush is B.A.D.

We did it again! Flea's point is very good in that there was clearly a managerial move to bring in Maines to create a sort of band that would trump "new country". I was reminded in parts of Waylon Jennings. Plus, perhaps not oddly given they are all Texans and have the vocal cadence, Buddy Holly.

Chris: we do have the right to speak out against or for politics in the workplace to a degree we do not have the right to be personally rude. But they can overlap. But employment standards are too far from the pop music marketplace for comparison.

I sit corrected. She is oh so cute

http://www.thehairstyler.com/images/celebrity/Celebrity_647.jpg

Okay I guess she is cute-ish

and no, I do not frequent thehairstyler DOT com before it is sugegsted.

Advocating shutting up is in itself an affont to democracy. Calculating and spinning out ways to use state power to effect such shutting up is too. The fact that it has failed in part and that, in fact, this band speaks for a pretty mainstream political point of view speaks to the power of democracy to assess its own interests well. But, given the inordinate power of US talk radio to a certain constituency and its general lack of a complete spectrum of views, I would not be comforted by that failure. And I am sure you would not advocate leaving to those interests who would undermine democracy to their own devices and not fight for that cause, Flea. The marketplace of ideas must be allowed freedom. Leveraging the medium to limit that is undemocratic.

Natalie Maines: Why does she hate us?

Why did Michael J. Fox not take his medicine?

<blockquote>
Why did Michael J. Fox not take his medicine?
</blockquote>

It was time to do the laundry?

"Advocating shutting up is in itself an affont to democracy."

And yet you keep telling former Dixie Chicks fans to shut up. Why? Why do you hate FREEDOM, Alan? Why?

See, I like these group hug moments. As long as I know that one more person out there is considering buying a banjo, I know I have done my job.

If only there was a movie I could watch that would remind me how I had been SILENCED! Oh, how I yearn to once again be FREE!

You know what I hate. Dried parsley. Would it kill you to keep a little fresh parsley around, the sort that doesn't wedge up between your teeth and gums. Free me of dried parsley, Flea.<p>By the way, seeing as the Big Smoke Three are weighing in so much, check out the Mill Street Brewpub. Take your own flashlight, though.

<blockquote>
There is a concerted effort to tell these artist to "shut up and sing" by framing it as the obligation to not be unpatriotic/unAmerican/leftist.
</blockquote>

Basically, so what? I'd like to write something longer or cleverer here, but if someone says something obnoxious, stupid, ignorant or just something you plain disagree with "shut the f*ck up" may not be the cleverest of things to say, but it's not crushing "dissent". If one doesn't care to be told to "shut the f*ck up", one should probably avoid public positions and certainly public positions calling people's political choices moronic.

BTW: Gorthos, time to get over McCarthy. Let it go.

Why are you so unpatriotic, David?

I am not student of the C&W music scene, but I would speculate that reasonably strong <i>Not Ready To Make Nice</i> album sales has a lot more to do with the Chicks acquiring brand new listeners as opposed any reconciliation with their longtime fans who felt slighted. I draw upon the examples of G'n'R and Metallica who had a meteoric rise in the late 80s / early 90s but suffered in later years because 1) their newer stuff was total garbage and 2) they really went out of their way to destroy the goodwill of their fan base.

So they come for me first?

A: your mother is a whore, D
D: fudge you buddy!
A: you're crushing my dissent!
G: (sounds nothing)
... two years pass ...
G: hey D, your mother is a whore!
D: aren't you worried about your dissent being crushed?
G: it seems safe now that everyone else is saying it

Picking on celebrities is favorite game of rightistas like Rush Limbaugh meanwhile it is corporations like Fox or CBS or Major League Baseball that need celebrities and need to create not just celebrities but also the cult of celebrity (celebritocracy, as I like to call it). The simple point I gleaned from Al's post was that villifying critics of the President as unpatriotic amounts the quashing dissent: It should not be considered unAmerican to criticize, but the implication (at least in the case of the Dixie Chicks) was that it is nigh on treasonous to do so. The fact that celebrities have more of a platform from which to opine is not the celebrities' fault nor does it make their opinions any more correct or less correct. I also didn't think that Al was encouraging support of the Chick due to their political comments but (I'm guessing) he may think deserve some consideration for risking expressing an opinion, getting shit on by the rightist punditry of America and not really getting anything out of it other than some bad press and backlash. Indeed, I'd be surprised if the Dixie Chicks even were aware of how badly (and unfairly) Canadians pick on GWB. Their media world is not our media world.

Hi Hans,

Putting a religious death-sentence on an author is crushing dissent.

Shooting an artist in the street because he made a movie you do not like is crushing dissent.

Burning an embassy because of some cartoons is crushing dissent.

Criticizing the President of the United States and being celebrated as for taking "risks" then whining because your fans disagreed with you bears no relationship to the above examples.

But such is to pop the bubble of the left's fantasy war.

The ozone: Why does it hate us?

I'm no good with math. And I would watch trying to figure out what I was thinking as it mainly flows in bright pastels.

But I can tell an "your issues are your issues but my issues, they are <i>ISSUES!</i>" arguments that rely on politically correct "the left" trump card. Focus...banjos...focus...

Feel free to call this Dixie Chicks nonsense an ISSUE as you please. But chances are nobody is going to charge you with treason no matter how long you wish for it.

i remember in the 80s going to a lecture by the feminist philosopher mary daly. she got up, castigated every male in the audience for being a male, stated her intention to only take questions from woman, and ended her speach with "now, let the women speak," to which the audience went koko bananas. i thought of that when i read the first part of your admirable desrip. hats off to you for going; i'd rather have a beer in a taliban bar than go near a dixie chick concert.

speech. speech. speech. i just couldnt let that one stand for my own self esteem. i wonder what she eated before the speach.

oh, now i see the other grammer/spelling stuff too. what would mary daly say. damn, my knogson for a sepll check.

I wonder what they serve at taliban bars. What snacks.. What music would be playing if any. Would they make an exception and play the Dixie Chicks?

Download Firefox or Foxfire 2.0 and you get spell checking for blog comments. Bottom line - a very dandy banjo player in knee-high boots was worth the price of admission. As was the ticket taker in the picture above. He looked like an ex-boxer and could have been between 38 and 64.<p>Dobro. Gotta get me a dobro next.

They are the Taliban. That is the freaky thing. That is why we must work against them. Non-industrial cheeses, too.

water, there's nuts on the bar but they're in dishes of sand, and two shows nightly, a nude woman dancing to perry como songs from inside a burlap sack.

"Putting a religious death-sentence on an author" = thought police.

"Shooting an artist in the street because he made a movie you do not like" is murderer lunatic influenced by thught police.

"Burning an embassy because of some cartoons" = mob mentality incited by thought police.

If you're going to split hairs about what crushing dissent really is then beef up your level of analysis. None of your examples are directly analagous. Would "trying to crush dissent" be acceptable to you?

The bottom line is that critics of the Chicks did not respond to their criticism of GWB but rather attacked the act of criticism as being unAmerican. To me that is trying to crush dissent by incitement to ostracization. Yes, that's a far cry from murder, but not too many steps removed from a fatwa.

"Criticizing the President of the United States and being celebrated as for taking "risks" then whining because your fans disagreed with you bears no relationship to the above examples." -- Here, you're missing a step that comes before they get celebrated for taking risks. They criticized, get villified, then get celebrated for taking risks. I guess they whined after that, but I didn't really pay attention to the whole affair.

"But such is to pop the bubble of the left's fantasy war."

Why do people on the right want to characterize everyone who doesn't agree with them all the time as "left"? To me that sounds like a fantasy war. But to be clear: I am against dogmatism and rhetoric from anywhere in the political spectrum.

To be fair - but the risk of putting words in the mouth of another rather than a banjo in their arms - the Flea mourns the lack of a viable left with the best of us.

Neato.

So, are you guys ready to make nice?

Why do you hate us, Mike?

I think the left is filled to the rafters with dogmatists and empty rhetoricists.

I should have said, the left in Canada.

I don't even know what the left is in America, if that's a relevant thing to say.

I didn't know Mike hates us.

As you prepare your research for creating comments, consider the absolute privilege of speaking about the government.

"Would 'trying to crush dissent' be acceptable to you?"

Not crushing dissent. For example, by deciding not to air or purchase a band I disagreed with.

It really sucks when pundits endow main-stream musicians or worse - pop actors, with credentials in political commentary. I rank the authority of the Dixie Chicks' opinions on GWB right up there with my mother in law's (god bless her heart).

It is what it is and probably nothing more.

So where does my legal foot stand, edge of precipice or solid terra, when I frequently refer to Belleville Ontario as Bellevile with regard to this ruling? :)
http://www.canlii.org/on/cas/onsc/2006/2006onsc10892.html

Which is what I hoped to convey way up (...<i>look waaaaaaaaay up</i>...) when discussing their discreditation rather than any credit they earn themselves. But I do like this:<blockquote class="smalltext">The reason for the prohibition of defamation suits by government lies not with the use of taxes, or with some abstruse theory about the indivisibility of the state and the people who make up the state. Rather, it lies in the nature of democracy itself. Governments are accountable to the people through the ballot box, and not to judges or juries in courts of law. When a government is criticized, its recourse is in the public domain, not the courts. The government may not imprison, or fine, or sue, those who criticize it. The government may respond. This is fundamental. Litigation is a form of force, and the government must not silence its critics by force. </blockquote><blockquote><blockquote>para 58, Halton Hills (Town) v. Kerouac, 2006 CanLII 12970 (ON S.C.).

Hans, I represent the American left and I am, as you say, a dogmatic lover. I have two, both are black labs. But the American left tries to be inclusive, therefore I have two cats in a variety of colors.

Dang, what is it about Portland? the guy makes no sense but is totally hysterical.

Our man Paul in Kingston sums the whole stupid thing up: people high and low have opinons, so what, chill out, etc. Hey Paul, (and the KSPC)you comin' down for Cornell vs. Dartmouth Saturday? (or Penn vs. Cornell Nov 18?)Gotta ticket for ya, and we could locate some beers...

I am only posting to this thread from now on. This is interesting on the implications of the state legislatures flipping.

nick manojlovich lived across the street from me when i lived in toronto.

Never mind all that, I need cheese advice: The best before date on the feta in my fridge is today. Should I throw it out? Can I put it on pasta to be frozen for lunches later?

I thought this blog post was interesting, given today's conversation. BTW: I much prefer having conversations with (non-red faced yelling) lefties. No fun talking to people who agree with you.

Funny. I think of the right that way too. That is a good link and one that hopefully mirror something of what I want to create as really everything else other than civil discourse is a waste of time. That means you have to risk being wrong - but I am so used to that condition it is not a worry for me.<p>CM's question begs the question of whether can cheese go bad. I think you are fine.

Do you actually ever run many right wing people in your non-professional life? (I'm asking this in a non-snarky way).

David, how would he know? It's not exactly easy to casually slip political litmus tests into everyday conversation.

I haven't had one politics-related conversation with a colleague since I joined The Firm, and I wouldn't want to. My boss must have some idea, since I take time off to support various military activities, but on the whole I imagine most people of all political persuasions tend to fly under the radar. There are not too many jobs where that sort of thing comes up.

haha, i'm comment number 75! yeah baby.

Well done, portland. Shall we aim for 80? And thanks, Alan. I'm afraid my cheese knowledge is very limited.

I think that is an excellent point, Chris. I presume in my profession as there is a range as in my workplace. But most of my pals are degrees of centre-left, though it is probably fair to say I would not necessarily talk politics that much any more. Certainly not like university days. And if most are Maritimers I would expect many are fiscally more liberal and socially more conservative than me.

Of course I know if people are left or right wing when i talk to them! Plain as the nose on their damn faces.
Guess cm survived the ancient cheese.

3 kids came for candy tonight, that's it. Plus the 2 little kids next door. Poured myself a couple of strong drinks to cope with my feelings of candy inadequacy.

80! On a Tuesday!

Sure, leftover chocolate bars breakfast, lunch and dinner for the next week. Delish!

HA I get 81.. We had two kids. Two. $45 on decorations and candy and costume bits for B3 (see my flickr site via my blog, I'm to lazy to link).. ugh.

One thing I find funny about work is that there IS such a range of left and right, though the higher up you go, the farther right you get it seems, which is odd given where I live.

I had a friend's father once say "if you aren't a socialist by the time you are 18 there is something wrong with your heart. If you are still a socilist when you are 30 there is something wrong with your head." I think there is a third line missing "if you don't go back to being a socialist by the time you are 40 there is something missing in your life". Cripes I must need a drink..

Like them for their politics or not. The fact remains is these ladies are powerful and transcending in concert. The Chicks just rip away the veil of resistance and plunge directly into your heart and soul.

"So where does my legal foot stand, edge of precipice or solid terra, when I frequently refer to Belleville Ontario as Bellevile with regard to this ruling? :)"

gorthos: If you are from the County the only correct name for the place is Smelleville. Or possibly Smelbyville if you want to switch it up a bit.

Wow, really late to this party.
A couple of things.
1) It's silly season. everyone's political nerves are bared to the elements and everyone is pulling for their side. So, I'm taking this with a kg of salt.
2) 'We're bigger than Jesus' lead to what? Jerry Lee Lewis marrying his sub-16 year old cousin lead to what?
3) It's silly season, so take a deep breath.
4) Coco Crisp

I have also heard the OHL team called the Bullville Belles.

I was going to say, I was worried about you and this thread, ry. You took it very well.

Chris -- I said non-professional. Gary -- you have to look for subtle indicators; for example, if they're wringing their hands over their hands over how they should vote in the Quebec referendum to best please the oppressed indiginous Quebecois nation, they're probably a leftie.

I must not be a leftie though I am a fiscal socialist then.

Flea:
I am not from The County, though I did own a homw in rednesdville for a few years. I am actually FROM Bellevile (though I like Smellbyville) but I escaped in 1998 to move to Ktown. For the past 18 months we have lived in our summer house north of Bellevile and have happily avoided visiting the "city" any more than we have had to. Thankfully, we have bought a home in Rural Ktown and shall return to the bliss of "more restaurants per capita than any other similar sized city on Ontario" in the new year.

Funny, when we were kids our distain was for Trenton, now all f my pals that have moved away have the same distain for our home town. How sad is that.

I think that's a really good point about Coco Crisp.

Coco Crisp is always a good point.

Holy crap, there you go with the forking hands again David. I bet all you get from Santa is a bag of muddy rocks.
It is fairly easy to actually talk to people and get an idea where they are coming from. Try that instead of watching the hands DJ.
I am sure that if Marian was around she would......

... Riot?

:-)

I don't know if it is <i>easy</i>, Gary, but it may be a US v. Canada thing. We do not talk that much in private or working life about politics as a rule. It is much more fluid, too, as we are not "registered" voters for one party or another.

....if Marian was around she would push this sucker up to 100 in no time. ;^)

DJ the wringing hands thing looks like a generalized put down, along the order of 'you can always tell a conservative at a party because he double dips his tortilla chips AND sneezes in the salad (whereas you can tell the liberals at a party because they are stuffing snacks into their pockets when they think nobody's looking)'

BTW, why do you people care what Quebec does? If they want to econmically shoot themselves in the foot and further marginalize themselves, hey, self-determination and all that, but make 'em pay if they beg to return.
Alan, I wasn't aware that political views were so closely hidden in the north. Heck, around here everybody has signs all over their lawn saying who they plan to vote for. We have 4 signs on our lawn.

Except for municipal elections, there is only one sign to put on a lawn here by folk and that is only during election campaigns. Plus fewer flags on houses, no real direct opportunity to vote for public officials, and no real support of local craft beer! We have been high-leveled out of our personal and communal particularity.

Nicholas may make my at least part of my point.

GR: Re:
BTW, why do you people care what Quebec does? If they want to econmically shoot themselves in the foot and further marginalize themselves, hey, self-determination and all that, but make 'em pay if they beg to return.

Personally, i think Quebec, Ontario and the Maritimes should separate from the rest and have BC as a vacationland Territory that we go to on holiday.

In truth, to get to the Maritimes you have to go through the US or Quebec. If it went, they would go and we woudl never ever see an affordable Lobster or a friendly PEI girl ever again :(

As for politics, like Alan said. For most of us, we kepe our religious views, political support etc. to ourselves and only discuss it in close friends. It is not polite to argue in Canada eh, so we avoid such by not breaching the topic. For our federal election and our provincial elections, we only have one sign to put up. We don't vote for things like governors, senators, judges, sherrifs etc.

as portland might say : 100! yeah baby!

I do not sneeze in the salsa; I may be responsible for adding the extra Tabasco. And if you eat at my house, the steak will be served medium-rare or not at all.

When would portland say that? <ul><li>He doesn't golf even badly enough to be overwhelmed by a score of 100. </li><p><li>I think 100 lbs is likely grade eight and it ain't coming around again for any of us. </li><p><li> Maybe in reference to full attendance at sitting of the US Senate but why would that excite him so.</li></ul>When would portland say that?

OK, gorthos, I have to admit only a dim understanding of your politics, but from what I have seen, Canadians know how to party. I mean, I had to look up LCBO. That is actually a good idea, I think, and when we lived in Vermont and New Hampshire, those states owned all the spirits sales, plus sold wine, but wine and beer are also in many stores. As for QC, I admit to having as many QC friends as Ontario friends, and they have an interesting side, as in 'we've been insulted by the English for generations, this is our culture and life, we want to preserve it' which is understandable. I don't see the value of seperatism, and neither do they. It is very spooky, driving around southern QC, parts of which had been very English, and seeing abandoned Anglican churches and schools....but I know, it would chop the country in half and be foolish, and I wish everybody could relax, but it strikes me that the Canadian gov't has been very nice to the French, and leave QC alone to an extent.
Hard to believe the reticence about politics, religion etc--Americans are pretty brash and vocal I suppose about what could be considered private opinons, but my particular outlook is so far to the progressive left, just about everybody looks conservative to me, and I can tell that just by the way they sneeze.

duh, Alan, he said it at 75 last night.

But that was 75. That's different.

Geez. With 105+ posts you'd think that naysay guy would have put his 2 cents in there somewhere.

Is naysay still around? I thought he was banned.

He is 50% of the auto-delete gang.

Observation: fan bases can form because of the 'personal relationship' . For instance, people like country music because it tells stories that they can empathize with(the 'That's me!' effect) and it is one of the few remaining genres where nationalism hasn't been re-defined to mean jingoism.

What happens when you no longer tell the story that they self identify with?

Like, say what would happen if System of a Down or Green Day became pro-war/pro-republican? I wouldn't doubt we'd see the same type of thing going on(matter of fact, I know people in BErzerkely who hate Green Day for 'selling out' and burned all their GD albums.).

On the Jon Stewart front. Flipping around tonight I saw Joe Scarborough's show taking a hot poker to him. Someone must've been reading your blog without permission, Al ;)(jeebus, pass the codein)

"crushing dissent" - do death threats count? does the need to increase security for themselves & their families count? The difference between what happened to them & what happened to Salmon Rushdie(sp?) is in degrees - Rushdie has been threatened (if I recall correctly) by a state & had to flee the country. The Chicks were threatened by fans vs the state, but I doubt it was more comforting to them.

I'm not a huge fan of theirs and of the 2 CDs I've bought, I usually only like 3 or 4 of the tracks, but I wouldn't mind seeing them in concert.

GO SEE THEM. THEY ARE GREAT.

NO. I WILL NOT. I HATE COUNTRY MUSIC AND BLUE GRASS EVEN MORE. (sorry, Al, just had to do the all caps response to be a cheeky bastich).

And if 'intimidation tactics' count as great evil then the FBI should come on down to Lafayette and get out the Great Whuppin' Stick. Tires were slashed on the van that delivers the animals my wife works on for her PhD project over the weekend. Envelopes have been mailed with threats in them(again). It ain't no big deal in my book to get 'death threats'. I get them and I'm some no-name grad -student in Indiana(no, not all of them from students who thought I was to hard in grading on the final).