Gen X at 40

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Blogging the Debate

Posted by Alan McLeod on in , - 32 comments

"I have agreed to enforce their rules on them," says Jim Lehrer, just before telling us he wrote all the questions. That is a good thing. I have some hope.

  • "We just have a different set of convictions," Kerry says in the first of a evening of what will be no doubt short sentences from him;

    • Bush responds with non-responding sound bites summarizing after starting with "um". There is something weird about his cadence as if half way through a sentence he figures out what he is reading, "people know what I believe and that is the best way to keep the peace". Constantly stay on the offensive.;
  • 9:10 pm - Kerry start name dropping. Colossal Misjudgements "where do you want me to begin?" Kerry is not being nice. He is speaking well. "Iraq is not the center on the war on Iraq." 40 to 70 percent of the economy of Afghanistan is based on opium.

    • 9:13 pm - Bush says the world is better off / safer without Saddam. I went to the UN hoping the free world would act in concert. [Bush is not yet tying the disarmament of Iraq to the war on terror]. [Lehrer is very good]. "We are facing...a...a... group of folks who will strike anywhere." "He is isolated". "We're making progress." "We will succeed, we have a plan to do so";

    • 9:18 pm - Kerry: Iraq was not a centre of the war on terror until the President made it one. 10,000 of 12,000 Humvees not armoured. Bush: "What message does that send." Kerry: "I don't believe this President can succeed."

    • 9:18 pm - Kerry: 97% of cargo ships not inspected. "I believe in protecting America first." "I'm going to invest in homeland security". Loose nuclear material. I'm going to do it in four years.

  • 9:23 pm - Bush: "how is he going to pay for all these promises?" [!!! - what an odd thing to say when you are responding to homeland security]. The best way to provide homeland security is to stay on the offence;

    • 9:25 pm - Bush: a lot of really good people working hard. You better have a president that will chase these people down before they hurt you. We will give you all the equiipment you need [...except the flak jackets bought for birthdays on eBay];

    • 9:27 pm - Bush: A free Iraq is essential for your security. Kerry: The President's father said there was no exit strategy. Bush: [repeats self on what kind of message is this to the troops].

    • 9:29 pm - Kerry says Vietnam for first time [...Yankees and Twins tied 4-4. I am drifting a little. I admit it.]

    • 9:32 pm - Bush: "That is absurd." "What does he say to Tony Blair." WHat does he say to others? Join us for a war that is the wrong war at the wrong place at the wrong time". [Bush is getting better but his voice is getting a wee wobbly]. I don't appreciate when a candidate for president denegrates these soldiers.

    • 9:35 pm - Bush: "we got a plan in place. "Nato is now helping." "Jordan is helping, the UEA is helping." [Paul Martin is begging him to say something nice about Canada]. Kerry: even knowing there was no threat, Bush says he would still have gone into Iraq. You can't tell me when the British has only 8,300 soldiers on the ground, you go down the list (of allies) and soon you are in to deployments in the hundreds. We have 90% of the casualties and 90% of the costs. "I think he has not been candid with the American people". Bush said we would plan carefully, we would go as a last resort - we did not. [Good line for Kerry]. We need to be smarter. [Good line for Kerry].

    • 9:41 pm - Bush: is being a wee bit bitchy, chippy. "That is not how a commander-in-chief acts." [Kerry is citing more events, more themes.]. Kerry: "There was a right way to disarm him and a wrong way, the president took the wrong way." Bush: "You can't change positions if you expect to win." "...after we prayed, teared up and laughed some..." [Bush is getting not unlike Clinton, feeling pain.]

  • 9:49 pm - Bush: repeats the worng wrong wrong line. Kerry: Pottery Barn rule - you break it, you fix it. [Good line. Pottery Barn. Lots of rural Americans swing state voters will get the Pottery Barn analogy. Except...it's a shop in the mall in the 'burbs, Jimbo.] Kerry cites facts on training Iraqis and the 16 permanent bases being built. Bush: "We're getting the job done." Bush says criticising the leader of Iraq is changing the situation on the ground. Kerry: I could not agree more that the Iraqis want to be free. The President has not shown how he will do that.

  • 9:55 pm - Bush: Look at Libya [Why is he making that a passing reference only now?] Kerry: "Saddam Hussain did not attack us. Osama Ben Laden did." "They outsourced the job...and that's the enemy that is in now 60 percent of the world". Bush: "Of course I know Osama Ben Laden attacked us. I know that..." [Gripping retort, Dubya]. Kerry: "9 out of 10 active divisions" [Kerry is using good facts as illustrations].

  • 10:00 pm - Bush: "I wouldn't join the international criminal court where unaccountable courts and prosecutors could pull our soldiers and diplomats up for trial". On North Korea - "the better way to was get other nations involved." [Bush is doing a set piece now and chumps it at one point.]

  • 10:05 pm - Lehrer intervenes to clarify facts of the differences between the two debators on North Korea. Good control. Bush: "we can't sanction them any more" [on Iraq]. Kerry: [on Sudan] "we can do this through the African Union provided we give logistical support." "We can never allow another Rwanda". Bush: "I agree it is genocide." No promise on changing policy to meet the new facts - stay the course even if many die in genocide.

  • 10:11 pm - Bush: [Saying nice things about Kerry throws him off and then he says very nice things. It's nice when daughters get along. Back to script quickly...]: "In the councils of government there must be certainly from the US president". Kerry: [nice things back]. "you can be certain and be wrong...he is not acknowledging the facts, what is on the ground..."

  • 10:16 pm - Kerry: "This president has secured less nuclear material in the years since 9/11 than in the two years before 9/11." "You have to put the funding into it the leadership into it." "Talk about mixed messages." [Good line Kerry has used a couple of times]. Bush: [A little fumbly] "I agree with my opponent..." "My opponent is oppsed to the missle defences." Lehrer: "both of you believe the single most important risk is nuclear proliferation?" Bush: "...in the hands of terrorists" Kerry: I will enter bi-lateral talks with Korea.

  • 10:21 pm - Lehrer: New question on Russia. Bush: "by consolidating power in a central government he may not have checks and balances." "I have a good relationship with him...it is important to have good personal relationships so you can discuss disagreements...Russia is a country in transition." [Bush calls him "Vladimir". I want him to call him "Vlad" or "Putey". Kerry: "Putin owns all the television stations, his opponents are in jail." "Freedom on the march, not in Russia right now." Bush: "Kerry said the truth of the matter, I don't take it personally...[D'oh-Whing]... Kerry: "it was a threat but that is not the issue the issue is what you do about it...he did not go to war in Iraq as a last resort." [Great line for Kerry]

  • 10:26 pm - Kerry: "different set of convictions". Bush: "I believe in the transformational power of liberty. [Final statements begin...blah, blah, blah...why do they bother with final statements...]

Comments

Wayne -

Kerry is tip-toeing around his Viet-Nam theme...Bush is playing on his perception of strength.

Wayne -

Kerry is continuing to be vague on his plan to do better...what about the details...any detail!

ALan -

Yes - Kerry is doing well to keep his yap shut on that. Bush is doing better on his theme but then the facts under his theme are not persuasive. Kerry is coming off with a better grasp of detail.

Wayne -

Diplomacy failed in Iraq, and made the US the fall guy for sanctions.
Kerry implies he could get UBL.I don`t think he could do it without upsetting Muslims in Pakistan.

Wayne -

The test??? Debate and sit on your hands while the enemy plots, plans and acts?

Alan -

Talk about the flow of the debate, not the underlying facts. I can't debate about something other than a debate let alone the debate as it happens. Note your impressions. We can summarize later.

Wayne -

Kerry implies he may consider preempt in N Korea...what is his plan to win peace there?

Wayne -

Bush is honest about his values and strategy, whether wrong or not. Kerry has been evasive and vague.

Alan -

You must be listening to somethng else...like your pre-conceived notions. Bush is speaking is vague generalities. He seems to lack the ability to draw on details of any question. You get a sense that "Keep on course" is in itself a policy which can be applied to any facts placed before him.

Wayne -

Kerry has a lonf face...looks like Leno.

Alan -

I want to hug them both and make them cocoa.

Wayne -

Bush makes good point on sanctions...

Wayne -

Bush is showing compassion and warm fuzzies...good strategy...show his human side.

Wayne -

but now, more of the same from W...and that is all he needs to do to come out on top. Now Kerry is consilatory

Wayne -

tension seems to be fading...

Alan -

That nice stuff helps Kerry more than Bush as Bush has been seen to be holding Kerry out as a flippy-floppy hazard. Kerry was less fullsome as well.

Wayne -

why are my posts showing 1 hour ahead of you...is your server on AST while you post on EST?

Alan -

I am on PEI time as my server is there.

Wayne -

but bush is seen as harder, so needs some kinder gentler moments to connect to audience...hope last question does not throw you off in this fast pace

Wayne -

good for you! So, as I always knew, yer heart is in the right place! :)

Wayne -

Nobody said ``flip-flop`` yet...

Wayne -

when is it a ``lasr resort``?

Alan -

Not saying flip-flop a lot may disappoint bush supporters. I think Bush lost a bit but Kerry did very well.

Wayne -

Homeland security, fighting in 2 countries, tax reform these are not vague points you claim bush portrays...

Wayne -

BUsh repeated same line...kerry did well...draw! good night

Alan -

Very much more civilized than I thought it would be. Kerry did what he had to do. I really did not know what Bush had to achieve. They both came off as more intellegent and likeable. That impression does not help Bush as he must come off as untouchable, as the sole leader. Kerry came off as a plausible alternative.

Alan -

Thanks Wayne.

Alan -

<i>Postscript</i>: John Stewart interviewing Wes Clark live at 11:09 pm after the debate ends at 10:30 is gold. Conversely, Frum on BBC World at 10:50 pm looked like a toad and sounded bitter, unrealistic and twisty. I don't like my toads sounding like that.

alfons -

It's a pity it wasn't broadcast live over here...

Lisa Howard -

http://www.multicultural-adventure.blogspot.com

Many many thanks from those of us who aren't getting the debate.

David -

http://blog.davidjanes.com

Kudos man. I went to bed at 8:20 and have no regrets...

Marian Evans -

It has just occurred to me that in 2008, the GOP may be planning to run Condoleeza Rice against Hillary Clinton (Actually I had some help with this epiphany. I was reading Wonkette.) Anyway, if that's their strategy, then it's brilliant and Rice will no doubt win. I totally disagree with Rice's politics, but she's really Presidential. She's also bright, ambitious, eloquent, experienced, and has good political instincts. You could get a lot of traditional democrats to vote for her. If you run a woman on the left, the left will vote for her, but not the right. But if you run a woman on the right, then you've got a chance. That's how Thatcher got elected.

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