Listening to his press conference now on CBC Ottawa's drive home show - Brent has booked the best part of the first half hour to playing portions - I learn for the first time he moved here in high school with his parents sixteen years ago. This is going to smell very bad.

As an immigrant myself, coming to Canada, for me personally, has been a painful, long road. There were good parts. There were bad parts. I wish mr. Arar all the best in his pursuit of justice.

On Canada Now this evening, American Ambassador Celluci stated that the U.S. had plenty of reasons to ship Arar off to Syria. It doesn't make me feel very comfortable as a Canadian Citizen to know that the U.S. can ship me anywhere they want. Why was Arar not returned to Canada? From whom did the U.S. get the information that gave them "plenty of reasons"? My guess is Canada. I think things are going to heat up for our "Top Cop". It is simply not good enough for the Solicitor General to say "We welcomed him back into the country." That statement is small consolation for 10 months of torture. Not only does this smell bad, it stinks!

So, I take it Bill C-39 has no support here? Rather then stick our head in the sand, and ignore the threats that are real, and are coming from a group that has stated his intent to do harm to the west, and are willing to exploit the very thing we hold dear...freedom, I appreciate it when someone asks a few extra questions to me at the border or before boarding a plane. It makes me feel more secure knowing some idiot who wants to kill me for his God does not get his wish without some sort of questioning.

It makes me feel more secure knowing some idiot who wants to kill me for his God does not get his wish without some sort of questioning.

Yes. But Arar is a Canadian citizen.

Classic Wayne. Funny that it's never the liberty of our family and neighbours that we are so happy having restricted for all our good.

Why don't you go back look at the topic and make a comment about the topic. This is a Canadian citizen whose 1997 lease the US immigration service just happened to have in hand during interrogation, who was shipped to the country he identifed during interrogation that would torture him then did, whose jailers a CSIS agent visited during the period of Syrian jailing all despite forgein affairs assuring him he would not be sent to Syria. A Canadian citizen handed over to one of the axis of evil (tier two) in stead of handing him to our authorities for dealing with if there was something to deal with. Is freedom so important that we need to rely on the tyrants of Syria to enforce it for us? Is freedom so important that it is enjoyed at the pleasure of the secret police?

He was a Syrian citizen as well. Why does he fear a country for which he carries a passport? What was his relationship with this Abdullah Almalki...there seems to be little talk about this guy with whom he had a relationship actually is. Granted, he did not want to face a government who was playing politics with his life in Syria, especially if he was actually guilty of being part of some plot. Funny he was released shortly after Israel cleaned up some garbage near Dasmascus. Was this pay-back to the US for its support of Israel?

My comment about this thread is the same, which is we need to give our typical liberal heads a shake and realise the gloves must come off when dealing with this new form of terror that seeks to hide behind our civil rights, just as the terrorists also hide behind women and children. My life has changed, as well as many others. All our lives have been effected. I no longer feel I can safely travel the world as easily as I once did, because a religious group has targeted me because of my religion.And extreme civil rights belief will help them do it, right here at home. (Is this classic Alan?)

Well curbed. We have had three Canadians tortured by tyrants - one killed - and been unable to intervene, even with 20 days notice in Arar's case. He was scared or Syria because his parents got him and themselves out of there because it does things like torture. I will recommend my former barber on that point to get you up to speed on Syrian attitutes to those it does not like.

Your second paragraph sadly displays the mind addled by fear: your theme is always that a broad range of unspecified remedies must be imposed arbitrarily to deal with unknown forces, especially among the easy to get in our mitts and scapegoat. If this was a playground it would be the game plan for a confused bully. I expect more of our country. It was interesting to watch the response of the government on <i>The National</i> last night where a Manitoba MP on the Foregin Affairs Committee was offered up and who said he bleived everything Arar said, that it appears Arar was misidentified as the US was insisting he had a middle name he simply did not have - but our government was not able to identify this to the US as it was passing personal documents about him. What was CSIS doing in Syria during the incarceration. And, if you had watched it, you would know that the other person, also a Canadian, is being held still in the Syrian prison system and was tortured for a longer period of time by the Syrian military secret police. My question: is our government sending Canadians or at least tacitly allowing them to be taken to a Baathist regime for torture and interrogation with the hope of learning something? Is Syria, the partner of the terrorist, being used against our own citizens because it they are citizens they cannot be locked up without a charge like the state can do in relation to the immigration prisons on a Minister's warrant?

It is absolutely deplorable that a Canadian citizen was stopped at US customs and then shipped to Syria. The government has to provide information into why they let this happened; otherwise, all Canadian citizens will be subject to the fear of arbitrary detention, not by some totalitarian regime, but by friendly neighbours that we have treaties with that for decades have resulted in civil and respectful treatment of Canadian citizens. The Canadian government is failing Arar just like it failed the guy who was jailed in Saudi Arabia and the lady who died in Iran. The Canadian government has the duty to stand up for the rights of all Canadian citizens whether they were born in Syria or Scotland and whether there is something suspicious about them. Get them back here to Canada and then we'll sort it out fairly and openly. Fortunately, we have a little something called "the rule of law" that we can trust to deal with these things. Unfortunately, the Canadian government let their citizen down and let him be shipped around the world like criminal. Given the lack of information from the government, we are faced with the fear that this could happen to any of us.

I don't really buy the implication that Syria was somehow cooperating with Canada and the US to torture Arar on our behalf. The Syrians hate the Americans just as much as the Iraqis do. They are reported to harbour terrorists. Why would they do the dirty work on one hand and then foment terrorism on the other. The more likely explanation was that they didn't trust how it was Arar got sent to them, so they tried to get information out of him. I think they thought he was a western spy.

And what about the villainy of the Syrians. Sure, the government of Canada's actions were deplorable, but when is the world going to make pariahs of these totalitarian and abusive regimes (as opposed to invading them like Iraq, when they get "difficult" like Saddam did).

No one is questioning the dictarorship of "the other Baathists" - but what was CSIS doing with them? If I don't know that, if I do not know why owr spys were able to go where our diplomats were not, I am left unsure of the relationship I have to my state and my state has to dictators.<p>Here is the story of the other Canadian in Syrian prison. If he has done something wrong, if there wee evidence he was a terrorist, get him into our system - but if that was the case the Syrians would not have him in jail. If his crime is getting away from a dictatorship, what are we doing for him and why is it not news to the CBC that Canadians?

Similarly - and yet conversely - with this North Korean trade commissioner who defected and now who faces deportation and a bullet on the tarmac of an airport in the world's nuttiest disctatorship. If he is a war criminal or guilty of crimes against humanity, charge him here - we have the laws. If not, if he is a schlep who actually stood up to the North Koreans and got out of there - have a parade and thank him for chosing our country.

NPR is running a radio series available on the web on many related issues from an American perspective this week.

I believe the Solicitor General of Canada has to step up and answer some questions or at the very least perhaps ask his agents for the truth. I find this very typical of Ministers. They are not hands on.They leave everything to their bureaucrats and take the high road when asked questions by the media. It seems the answer is always the same-- "I can't speak about specific cases." I would bet just about anything on the fact that the powers -that -be are very surprised that Arar would ask for an inquiry. In my mind, I believe it very strongly suggests innocence on his part. I suggest Canadians had better take a hard look at travelling through the U.S. if our own country will not go to bat for us when our rights are being violated.
I was not aware that as Syrian-Canadians can hold dual passports. Alan - is this factual?

I would suspect it is more the case of once a Syrian always a Syrian whether you renounce the status at all. I also think Canada is eccumentical in terms of which other country you can co-nation with in that it does not require renunciations. The combined effect is more effective dual citizenship without a rule on it.

I have not look any of this up but as a dual (UK/Can) I also have some leverage for wacky rights in places like Estonia and the other bits of the new EU. Sweden, for contrasting example, until recently required its citizens to renounce citizenship if another was acquired, I assume to stop the amazing free social programs flowing to expats.

I know many Syrians and Lebanese. I do not take them at their word just because they are from where they are from.

I may seem to be straying in my post, but the real important issue here is whether he is a suspect in any form of terrorist activity. I agree his shipment to Syria by the US seems to be a "grave" error. But, I have my doubts his claim to be an innocent victim are completely true. His guilt or innocence should have been debated here, not Syria. And the US should have insisted on Canada cleaning up their own garbage. Having said that, I believe the government has a tough job protecting us from those whom you appear to wish to ignore in order to avoid being fearful(I say prudent).

Your comments about my beliefs are the same old song...claiming my concern about leaving our heads buried in the sand as being nothing else but a fear of maintaining the status quo. Putting up roadblocks to terrorist activity and fundraising is much better then welcoming them to come to Canada where our Civil Rights activitists will roll out the red carpet.

And yes, in todays world it is necessary, with terrorists and those who value their legal protection - at least until the next terrorist action kills one of their own - which I hope never happens (almost said "God Forbid", but reconsidered)

We all have given up freedom in order to be safer...airports, ports, everywhere, people have to be suspicious, and I welcome it to prevent more attacks. The alternative is to court disaster and is nothing but gullible folly.

Our Solicitor General should be raising hell with the United States because they did not send Arar back to Canada to be dealt with. Instead, to show he has power, he chooses to send to a small fishing port on PEI an RCMP Tactical Squad made up of 100 RCMP Officers, outfitted in riot gear to break up a peaceful demonstration.There was nothing to break up. It was just that...a peaceful demonstration. Less than 12 years ago, this very same man was a radical National Farmers Union member who had tractors blocking the roads at the Ferry Terminal in Borden. This demonstration prohibited the cars to leave the Ferry. He did this because it was his right. What has changed since that time? Do the fishermen have no right to peaceful demonstations? An editorial in today's paper was right to the point. If Minister Easter has forgotten where he came from since moving to Ottawa, he might just find the people where he come from will forget him on election day.

What the last two posts have in common is the advocation of moving from law to not law. It does not make me sad because it is a very common point of view: that somehow my interests are law and challenges to those interests are undeniably defendable as law. What Wayne is clearly advocating is a loss of the role of the individual's constitutional protections by averaged them out against the needs of the state rather than specifically reviewed the loss to ensure each person was dealt with as a person. It is a statistical approach that loosely related to the idea of "order" and the right of the self-defined "majority" to roll over the individual - especially the easily picked on immigrant individual who is indistinguishable to Wayne from a terrorist.

While I have not watched the news closely, I understand what Lillian is referring to are events in PEI where the RCMP have moved in on a blockade of a wharf, due to a dispute between two communities of Canadian fishers about fishing grounds. I understand the fishers being blocked were fishing under the law and the RCMP were enforcing a specific order of the court to clear the wharf to allow the fish to be transferred - not willynilly attacking the peaceful. Does the court shy from acting or the police form acting on order of the court due to the fear of an elected official losing an election. This is advocation of "disorder" by the majority as being ok.

Both points I tihnk are forms of bullying and lawlessness. For Wayne it is ok for pound the individual despite the law and for Lillian a court should worry about voters more than legal rights. Do you really want your country run on those principles? ...if you could actually find a principle in either statement. Please let us know what the principles involved are other than forms of fear.

For a lawyer, it is natural to challenge every action as to whether it is lawful or not. It makes sense , purely from the perspective that is is good for business. However, times change and laws need to change with them. This is the real issue.

Unfortunately, certain events occured so fast, the laws were left far behind, and over 3000 people lost their lives. So, civilization needs to play catch-up. Specifically, we need to move from blind trust driven by civil rights society, to one based on the old Soviet "Trust, but verify" approach.

Alan, I am not as hard on immigrants as you claim. However, I am aware, as I am sure your are, being a former member of the Island legal community, of one particular member of a visible minority, who takes great length in the courts to play his "poor me" minority member role. His claims that the Island and its government commit one act of prejudice after another is nothing but tired drivel. And it was stopped. There comes a time when we need to put an end to the playing of a race card, or religious card, to seek an advantage, or as something to hide behind for protection. Because he was Arab,this injustice gets headlines. Was it a similar story with a white protestant, his story would have been buried. The media have a "feel good" attitude (as do others) about appearing to place minority issues above those of the majority. And, it sells.

I like the old-time value of accountability. If the law or legal community find this against their principles , then they need to change. I really see this post as being about values and principles, so do not feel I have strayed off-topic,

No you are fine but I just utterly disagree with you and fortunately the law and the heritage of our democratic society is one my side. I read an interesting article recently on the difference between the British in WWII and the US now. People during the years of bombings in London went immediately to the pub after raids, didn't let fear overtake them or change them. Your new order is based on the idea that the west has to change, become less free, become suspicious and arbitrary. your position simply isn't an advocacy of freedom and what Arar is doing for us all is telling the secret holders that there is a limit to the indecency of what we will put up with them no matter how much is done to us by terrorists. 9/11 does not justify a wholesale and undebated retraction of rights and assignment of extraordinary powers in the hands of the few. Sure, send the special forces out to get them dead or alive and gather intellegence. But sending citizens to foreign nations for torture on suspicion alone? One step away from totalitarianism.

On the Canadian being held now still by Syria:<blockquote class="smalltext">Abdullah Almalki, an Ottawa businessman wasn't deported by the U.S. He was arrested in Damascus last year while visiting family, a few months after the RCMP raided his house. "The only place where he was being investigated was here. It doesn't take a genius to put two and two together," said his brother Yusef Almalki. Foreign Affairs Minister Bill Graham says Syria has yet to respond to a request for consular access to Almalki. As for Arar, Graham says Powell has promised to get back to him.</blockquote>The key to this is we supposedly have an arrangement with the CIA that they will not snoop on out citizens - we do that and share what is important. So Arar's interrogation in the US was fed by Canadian security providing documents Canada gathered about a Canadian. Similarly, the only thing the Syrians had on Almalki was either gathered by Syrian secret police in Canada, was about matters relating to his Syrian citizenship (such as military service) or was gathered by Canadian security, forwarded to US security then forwarded to Syria who put him on their customs warning list. He was grabbed at the airport passport post as he entered Syria so all are likely scenarios.<p>Given that our great help given to Sampson shows how worthless respect for us is in a tyrant state and that we have on <i>The National</i> last night an admission by the US that sending people to torturing tyrant jurisdictions to extract information is government policy, should we not refuse to provide the US information on our citizens?

It also appears that the US wanted Canada to hold Arar without basis before he came into the States and then that they had have identified the wrong person. Should Canada not have warned Arar that the US was misidentifying him and not to travel in the first place? Sounds a bit like the Jane Doe case. If there is no inquiry there will be a heck of a court case.

My posts are not timely ‘cause I am as busy as hell.

Lillian, if the protestors in Souris were under 25, unemployable, had long hair, gas masks and backpacks full of rocks, you can bet the media/left wing would have been lamenting about the excessive use of force by law enforcement.

Alan, we both want the same thing?life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness,(or the Canadian version thereof) just disagree on where to focus and where to apply to achieve those principles?.no doubt you know better then I where the laws stand in relation to our differing views. However, after radical groups seeking to gain a foothold in the west by gaining public sympathy through claims of oppression begin claiming your nightly glass of red with your meal being offensive to their culture, and hire lawyers to argue the amount of Baptist churches are offensive to their beliefs, I am sure there will be another consideration. I see the best way to protect us from those who have declared their intent is to make changes now which reflect the reality?You claim that we are in danger of losing freedoms and rights?I say they were taken away from us and 9-11 was the exclamation point. Facing reality is a brave, not a fearful thing to do. We have lost much freedom because of attacks and threats, and need to focus on prevent defense.

Again, we need to better recognize the difficult job the government and police have in order to protect us. And, in doing so, they will make mistakes. However, we cannot handcuff those responsible?but perhaps expect them to learn on the go. After all, this cultural hatred prevalent in certain areas of the world was a surprise to us all. Say what you will, the fighting in the Middle East could quite easily be brought to our shores. One way of stopping it is keeping out those who want to bring it here, and demand accounability of those here who have sympathies to the causes of the likes of Hamas, Hezbullah and Islamic Jihad.

I also feel what happened to Arar was terrible and there should be a limit to the level of indecencies inflicted. Just hope there is no story about a connection to terrorism that is lost in the media frenzy that has driven even Anna Maria Tremente to offer a soothing, sympathetic voice.

P.S. Question marks are not intended...appeared after cut and paste from text editor.

No prob with the question marks - are you doing that in the window of the blog reply frame or do they appear on transfer from your word processor to the reply frame?

Sad but I do think Osama would be very happy to read what you wrote - better to make fun of the dork, tell him he can take my life but can't change my mind. Until this year the only thing I liked about New Hampshire was the motto: "live free or die". That isn't a threat but the choice. If we do not live free we do die. I am happy to be as free as I can be and want my country to remain so. Worked for great grannie when Hitler's boys shovelled bombs out the door of a Henkle 88 onto the roof of her house. Just release the hounds, as we have - farmers kids from Saskatchewan and New Brunswick are still tromping around the hills of Pakistan pooping them off, we just don't get news of that. Time for Easter, however, to pony up why he turned the dogs on on of our own, though. Some people have confused who the enemy is.

They seem to have appeared after my posting of comments.

I suspect bin Laden does not care what we think as he is only concerned with world domination for his religion. Your comment "...as free as I can be" is subjective.